Overview
ProductRatingMost Used ByProduct SummaryStarting Price
Gong
Score 9.1 out of 10
N/A
Gong helps people and companies reach their potential. The Gong Revenue Intelligence Platform™ enables customer-facing teams to take advantage of their most valuable assets – customer interactions, which the Gong platform automatically captures and analyzes. Gong then delivers insights at scale, to empower revenue and go-to-market teams to determine the best actions for winning outcomes. The vendor boasts companies like Morningstar Inc., Paychex, LinkedIn,…N/A
Pipedrive
Score 8.3 out of 10
N/A
Pipedrive is a customer relationship management (CRM) software built to help small teams to drive sales.
$24
per month per seat
Zoho CRM
Score 8.5 out of 10
N/A
Zoho CRM is a simple, very low-cost CRM option for the smaller end of the SMB segment. The product has several useful integrations with other products, including QuickBooks, and Google Apps and Google Docs. The product also has an integrated project management module.
$14
per month
Pricing
GongPipedriveZoho CRM
Editions & Modules
No answers on this topic
Essential
$24
per month per seat
Advanced
$49
per month per seat
Professional
$69
per month per seat
Power
$79
per month per seat
Enterprise
$129
per month per seat
Standard
$14.00
Per User/Per Month
Professional
$23.00
Per User/Per Month
Enterprise
$40.00
Per User/Per Month
Ultimate
$52.00
Per User/Per Month
Plus
$57.00
Per User/Per Month
Offerings
Pricing Offerings
GongPipedriveZoho CRM
Free Trial
NoYesYes
Free/Freemium Version
NoNoYes
Premium Consulting/Integration Services
NoNoYes
Entry-level Setup FeeNo setup feeNo setup fee$14 /user/month
Additional DetailsMonthly plans are available. The Essentials monthly plan at $24 per month.
More Pricing Information
Community Pulse
GongPipedriveZoho CRM
Considered Multiple Products
Gong
Chose Gong
Gong is much better than the tools I have used before simply because of a better UI, easy-to-use system and it has the whole package any sales professional might need. You can't build an outreach into Gong, which I think could be a great idea for the Gong team but the things …
Chose Gong
We evaluated Chorus.ai and Pickle against Gong and Gong was the favorite for our use case. It was a market leader with some presence in region and clearly focused on the key trend analysis and coaching that we required.
Pipedrive
Chose Pipedrive
Here's the main point here. Pipedrive is a superior CRM for Sales in any type of field because it is so well made and focused on managing Sales Opportunities. Although, it can do a whole lot more than that - it focuses on sales out of the box and gets you managing sales …
Chose Pipedrive
I've known Salesforce.com to be a "yoke" for salespeople since it's inception. They have acquired several other software companies that I really like, Jigsaw being one of them. But other than that, they're still a yoke.

Zoho CRM is a very good choice, as is Insidesales.com. But …
Chose Pipedrive
Pipedrive has an excellent UI, email tracking features, and the ability to display contact information and notes about each individual. It allows us to integrate other systems with a high degree of automation, which is crucial to our workflow. Easy to pick up and use, with …
Chose Pipedrive
I much prefer the interface of Pipedive when compared to Zoho. Much more user friendly and the team is always readily available when we need them. Pipedrive allowed for many custom integrations to be added, as Zoho was a tad more complicated to manipulate. We would not go back …
Chose Pipedrive
Pipedrive is cheaper and more flexible.
Chose Pipedrive
Pipe Drive is THE ONLY sales CRM that any sales professional should use. I think that other CRMs are better for other tasks but for sales, Pipedrive is KEY! Pipedrive makes it very easy for a salesperson to keep up to date and add and remove records very quickly and allows to …
Chose Pipedrive
Pipedrive gives you a nice versatility over some other CRM software, but it comes at the price of customization, work automation and bulk contacting. There are however lots of integrations with other software and lots of upgrades that you could purchase but it's a bit too …
Zoho CRM
Chose Zoho CRM
We evaluated Zoho, HubSpot, Pipedrive, and Salesforce and chose Zoho and HubSpot. Zoho CRM has all of the features that Salesforce and Pipedrive has, but is more affordable than Salesforce and has better UI than Pipedrive. HubSpot has more features for marketers than Zoho, so …
Chose Zoho CRM
Free user access was one reason to use it more than any other software. Also, for a mid-size organization, the Salesforce cost was a little higher, and Pipedrive was almost similar to Zoho. As we were already using Zoho, we found no urgency to switch.
Chose Zoho CRM
We required a full-featured corporate working tool, and Hubspot wasn't the most excellent alternative. We were guaranteed that Zoho CRM may fill up the holes in our earlier framework. Furthermore, Zoho is fantastically cost-effective for indeed the most minor endeavors, giving …
Chose Zoho CRM
The major reason to select CRM is always with the user experience and reliability from the Zoho which is quite better as compared to the competition also it provides very good support in order to use their services due to these reasons it becomes highly recommend as per any …
Chose Zoho CRM
Zoho CRM has the best capabilities and features for the price. It is incredibly versatile and unbelievable value for money. Some things need to be "extended" with add-ons or other feature-specific apps from Zoho that connect pretty well. It is also very scalable, so we could …
Chose Zoho CRM
Pipedrive, Highrise, Pipeline Deals, Sugar. We ultimately decided on Zoho CRM because of the low cost and the extreme flexibility of the platform. It is possible to change pretty much anything in the the product through configuration options and that was important to us.
Features
GongPipedriveZoho CRM
Conversation Intelligence Software Features
Comparison of Conversation Intelligence Software Features features of Product A and Product B
Gong
8.8
183 Ratings
11% above category average
Pipedrive
-
Ratings
Zoho CRM
-
Ratings
Speech-to-Text Transcription8.8180 Ratings00 Ratings00 Ratings
Keyword Detection9.0178 Ratings00 Ratings00 Ratings
Sentiment Analysis8.1161 Ratings00 Ratings00 Ratings
Speaker Diarization8.8171 Ratings00 Ratings00 Ratings
Call Recording Playback9.5181 Ratings00 Ratings00 Ratings
Call Summarization9.1180 Ratings00 Ratings00 Ratings
Conversion Metrics8.7163 Ratings00 Ratings00 Ratings
Keyword Search & Retrieval8.8176 Ratings00 Ratings00 Ratings
Call Tagging8.8167 Ratings00 Ratings00 Ratings
Integration with CRM Systems8.8159 Ratings00 Ratings00 Ratings
Sales Force Automation
Comparison of Sales Force Automation features of Product A and Product B
Gong
-
Ratings
Pipedrive
7.9
68 Ratings
1% above category average
Zoho CRM
8.3
287 Ratings
6% above category average
Customer data management / contact management00 Ratings8.624 Ratings8.4278 Ratings
Workflow management00 Ratings7.621 Ratings8.2265 Ratings
Territory management00 Ratings6.514 Ratings8.6195 Ratings
Opportunity management00 Ratings8.365 Ratings8.6252 Ratings
Integration with email client (e.g., Outlook or Gmail)00 Ratings8.764 Ratings8.6247 Ratings
Contract management00 Ratings8.217 Ratings8.6202 Ratings
Quote & order management00 Ratings7.214 Ratings8.0202 Ratings
Interaction tracking00 Ratings8.521 Ratings8.0248 Ratings
Channel / partner relationship management00 Ratings7.116 Ratings8.2191 Ratings
Customer Service & Support
Comparison of Customer Service & Support features of Product A and Product B
Gong
-
Ratings
Pipedrive
2.9
7 Ratings
90% below category average
Zoho CRM
8.2
220 Ratings
7% above category average
Case management00 Ratings4.76 Ratings8.3212 Ratings
Call center management00 Ratings1.15 Ratings7.8171 Ratings
Help desk management00 Ratings3.16 Ratings8.4188 Ratings
Marketing Automation
Comparison of Marketing Automation features of Product A and Product B
Gong
-
Ratings
Pipedrive
7.5
49 Ratings
4% below category average
Zoho CRM
8.4
265 Ratings
8% above category average
Lead management00 Ratings7.449 Ratings8.4260 Ratings
Email marketing00 Ratings7.513 Ratings8.3218 Ratings
CRM Project Management
Comparison of CRM Project Management features of Product A and Product B
Gong
-
Ratings
Pipedrive
6.7
67 Ratings
14% below category average
Zoho CRM
8.3
262 Ratings
8% above category average
Task management00 Ratings7.964 Ratings8.4247 Ratings
Billing and invoicing management00 Ratings4.15 Ratings8.2179 Ratings
Reporting00 Ratings8.163 Ratings8.4241 Ratings
CRM Reporting & Analytics
Comparison of CRM Reporting & Analytics features of Product A and Product B
Gong
-
Ratings
Pipedrive
7.7
68 Ratings
0% above category average
Zoho CRM
8.3
257 Ratings
8% above category average
Forecasting00 Ratings7.619 Ratings8.3215 Ratings
Pipeline visualization00 Ratings8.268 Ratings8.2234 Ratings
Customizable reports00 Ratings7.516 Ratings8.5248 Ratings
Customization
Comparison of Customization features of Product A and Product B
Gong
-
Ratings
Pipedrive
6.3
64 Ratings
20% below category average
Zoho CRM
8.1
276 Ratings
5% above category average
Custom fields00 Ratings8.464 Ratings8.3274 Ratings
Custom objects00 Ratings8.354 Ratings8.1221 Ratings
Scripting environment00 Ratings1.04 Ratings7.9177 Ratings
API for custom integration00 Ratings7.646 Ratings8.2202 Ratings
Security
Comparison of Security features of Product A and Product B
Gong
-
Ratings
Pipedrive
6.7
62 Ratings
23% below category average
Zoho CRM
8.3
265 Ratings
1% below category average
Single sign-on capability00 Ratings6.112 Ratings8.3230 Ratings
Role-based user permissions00 Ratings7.260 Ratings8.3260 Ratings
Social CRM
Comparison of Social CRM features of Product A and Product B
Gong
-
Ratings
Pipedrive
1.1
5 Ratings
149% below category average
Zoho CRM
8.1
164 Ratings
8% above category average
Social data00 Ratings1.15 Ratings8.1163 Ratings
Social engagement00 Ratings1.15 Ratings8.1156 Ratings
Integrations with 3rd-party Software
Comparison of Integrations with 3rd-party Software features of Product A and Product B
Gong
-
Ratings
Pipedrive
3.6
7 Ratings
70% below category average
Zoho CRM
8.5
209 Ratings
13% above category average
Marketing automation00 Ratings3.67 Ratings8.6206 Ratings
Compensation management00 Ratings3.54 Ratings8.3137 Ratings
Platform
Comparison of Platform features of Product A and Product B
Gong
-
Ratings
Pipedrive
8.2
61 Ratings
8% above category average
Zoho CRM
8.5
229 Ratings
11% above category average
Mobile access00 Ratings8.261 Ratings8.5229 Ratings
Best Alternatives
GongPipedriveZoho CRM
Small Businesses
Clari Copilot
Clari Copilot
Score 9.1 out of 10
Salesmate
Salesmate
Score 10.0 out of 10
Salesmate
Salesmate
Score 10.0 out of 10
Medium-sized Companies
Clari
Clari
Score 8.7 out of 10
Creatio
Creatio
Score 9.1 out of 10
Creatio
Creatio
Score 9.1 out of 10
Enterprises
Clari
Clari
Score 8.7 out of 10
Creatio
Creatio
Score 9.1 out of 10
Creatio
Creatio
Score 9.1 out of 10
All AlternativesView all alternativesView all alternativesView all alternatives
User Ratings
GongPipedriveZoho CRM
Likelihood to Recommend
9.2
(624 ratings)
7.9
(72 ratings)
8.5
(310 ratings)
Likelihood to Renew
9.3
(13 ratings)
8.0
(3 ratings)
7.6
(42 ratings)
Usability
9.0
(393 ratings)
9.0
(25 ratings)
7.8
(172 ratings)
Availability
6.4
(2 ratings)
8.2
(1 ratings)
8.9
(7 ratings)
Performance
7.3
(2 ratings)
-
(0 ratings)
8.5
(8 ratings)
Support Rating
8.2
(100 ratings)
8.5
(15 ratings)
6.2
(69 ratings)
In-Person Training
-
(0 ratings)
-
(0 ratings)
8.0
(1 ratings)
Online Training
-
(0 ratings)
-
(0 ratings)
5.6
(8 ratings)
Implementation Rating
4.6
(6 ratings)
8.2
(1 ratings)
5.5
(16 ratings)
Configurability
7.3
(2 ratings)
-
(0 ratings)
5.1
(114 ratings)
Contract Terms and Pricing Model
7.3
(2 ratings)
-
(0 ratings)
9.5
(21 ratings)
Ease of integration
7.3
(2 ratings)
-
(0 ratings)
7.1
(5 ratings)
Product Scalability
8.2
(2 ratings)
-
(0 ratings)
5.8
(6 ratings)
Professional Services
7.3
(1 ratings)
-
(0 ratings)
8.3
(7 ratings)
Vendor post-sale
7.3
(2 ratings)
-
(0 ratings)
7.8
(13 ratings)
Vendor pre-sale
7.3
(2 ratings)
-
(0 ratings)
7.9
(13 ratings)
User Testimonials
GongPipedriveZoho CRM
Likelihood to Recommend
Gong.io
Gong is a wonderful tool to be able to make sure that a call is recorded properly with next steps highlighted by an AI once the transcript has been processed. Our organization uses the clip functionality quite often to share a prospect question internally with the appropriate parties, and the sales and CS teams have it synced to SFDC so they can see the opportunity value associated with each call.
Read full review
Pipedrive Inc.
Pipedrive is a fantastic tool to help monitor and track lead generation and referral sources. It helps maintain accountability with the sales team and helps ensure that we are doing appropriate marketing to maintain a steady influx of cases. The weekly and quarterly sales reports that it can generate are incredibly helpful and insightful. They help inform us of what we need to focus on each quarter/year.
Read full review
Zoho
Interfacing with our target clients at the correct minute is crucial in today's society. Another valuable include is its capacity to coordinated with other programs. It helps me in keeping track of the every day work emails I send to my colleagues or get. Zoho CRM makes it straightforward to consequence or send out information agreeing to our needs. Zoho makes a difference keep in mind individuals by means of e-mail and pop-ups, which dispenses with the issue of overlooking follow-ups and reminders. This not as it were helps within the organization of this incredible instrument but moreover within the execution of data.
Read full review
Pros
Gong.io
  • The history is quite useful in many aspects of my daily work, as I have a complete and detailed view of transcribed calls and email summaries of previously exchanged emails.
  • It's like an assistant; I can receive email reminders about things discussed during a video call, such as the upcoming date of a scheduled meeting or notes on certain key aspects the client needs for their order.
  • I can share calls through Gong with my clients. This gives me an added advantage, allowing the client to have reminders or a record of what was discussed without having to worry about manually taking notes.
  • The interface is complex but easy to learn, has many assistant-like features, and can also be integrated into many calling platforms, such as Zoom.
Read full review
Pipedrive Inc.
  • Great visual visibility of the funnel plus easy to drag the deals across the stages
  • The email integration that collects all relevant communication (also through the possibility of adding a deal-specific Pipedrive address on BCC)
  • The integration with Pandadoc, which we use a lot, so that Pipedrive keeps a really handy overview of the documents we have sent out / which have been signed
Read full review
Zoho
  • Hooks into our website and can import data from forms.
  • Has great automation tools built in.
  • Reporting features are great.
  • Easy to learn, makes it easy for us to onboard new users onto it.
  • Fairly customizable. We have fine tuned it to work the way we need it to.
Read full review
Cons
Gong.io
  • AI analysis - I'd love to see some more proactive analysis or the ability to set warning signs.
  • Cross-account analysis - I'd like to be able to run the Gong prompts across a set of customers or all calls within a certain range
  • Ease of Zapier accesss - I'd love to see even more connections built to Zapier.
Read full review
Pipedrive Inc.
  • Showing the customers name on the pipeline page. Right now I can only get it to show the brand name twice. I wish it would replace the second brand name with the main point of contact.
  • Better reporting tools. Their reporting tools are not easy to pick up. I've spent time trying to figure it out and it isn't something I can pick up on quickly.
  • Better training options. I wish I had a personal trainer to walk me through the best way to use Pipedrive so I can get the most out of it.
Read full review
Zoho
  • Need some way to switch a field type without losing the pre-existing data.
  • The settings controls should be broken out differently - I don't like that I can't keep some users from exporting all contact records (i.e., the entire Contacts module) because if the export function is turned off, the export function of Reports for those same modules is also blocked.
  • Frustrating that only 3 custom lookup fields are allowed per module in our license.
Read full review
Likelihood to Renew
Gong.io
Gong is one of the best if not the best tools we have in or tech stack in terms of ROI and ease of use. The ai features that have been released over the past year have continued to add value and are not just shiny new features that don't get used. It is also an easy to use platform for our sales and customer success reps, takes very little time to become proficient in. The deal boards also provide great visibility into opps for management and leadership
Read full review
Pipedrive Inc.
-2 for Its cost and +8 for the need of tracking of leads and monitoring of team.
Read full review
Zoho
i have already renewed my subscription twice. I am in the 3rd Year now. I have been using it for a while and have been recommending to my friends as well.. have attended ZOHOLICs the annual program of zoho and it gave me new insights of managing the crm solutoin.
Read full review
Usability
Gong.io
By default it automatically provides a lot of proactive information. Out of the box you can get a lot of value from what gets recorded with minimal setting adjustment. The effort you put in to enhancing it just makes it all the more powerful but you do not have to have a dedicated admin to get basic usage out of it.
Read full review
Pipedrive Inc.
Pipedrive is easy to use and has a clean interface so we can follow up accurately. Its custom features help manage leads and evaluate team performance. It saves time and improves efficiency. Pipedrive is stable and supports integrations and automation.
Read full review
Zoho
The methodology of the 'out of the box' user interface is fairly easy to learn. In some cases however, the interface is not consistent throughout the software. Upgrades to the interface has certainly improved some of this--- but now we are seeing the same kinds of inconsistencies across Zoho apps, particularly those more recently added to their platform. This issue is not major in that everybody on staff seems able to learn how to work the programs--- it's just annoying and less than efficient when inconsistent user interfaces or inconsistent terms are used in the programs and/or the requisite documentation.
Read full review
Reliability and Availability
Gong.io
No answers on this topic
Pipedrive Inc.
No answers on this topic
Zoho
In my many years using Zoho, I think there were only 1 or 2 days when there was something happening and I was not able to log in. Sure, it wasn't fun and we all panicked a bit, but right after that, all was well and work-life continued. Being cloud based, I'm never worried about losing my iPhone, iPad or Laptop as I know I can log in anywhere on any device and workflow won't stop.
Read full review
Performance
Gong.io
No answers on this topic
Pipedrive Inc.
No answers on this topic
Zoho
I don't recall every having any issues with a page not loading due to it being a Zoho issue. Anytime I've had any issues with something being wonky, I clear cache and that has always solved the problem. Or a simply computer reboot and we're back, hard at work. Look, I don't expect any product to delivery 100%, 100% of the time but if I had any consistent ongoing issues, I would have left many years ago. I still keep my eyes open to what is new but after a quick evaluation, I know Zoho will long be my home.
Read full review
Support Rating
Gong.io
I give them a 10 because, I have been using Gong for over a year now and have never had issues or concerns go un resolved in a day or two. Their communication is impeccable and their tech support is very hands on and prompt
Read full review
Pipedrive Inc.
Between quick video tutorials and having very quick feedback from their support teams, it is one of the main reasons I would recommend Pipedrive. It is critical, especially when setting up the platform to meet your companies needs, that a solid support team like Pipedrive has is there to make the transition easier.
Read full review
Zoho
We did the training and that was a huge waste of money. The information provided was basic and the instructor was sloppy (he even forgot to turn off his mic when he used the restroom - no one should ever hear what we heard). I offered up a 9 because we were able to find what we needed on your website.
Read full review
In-Person Training
Gong.io
No answers on this topic
Pipedrive Inc.
No answers on this topic
Zoho
I attended a Zoho-Holics event in Austin, TX, several years ago, and it blew my mind. So many industries were represented using Zoho in so many different ways. It was unbelievable all that I learned from that experience, as there were features that I wasn't aware of that I immediately started using. Best of all, the trainers were patient and knowledgeable
Read full review
Online Training
Gong.io
No answers on this topic
Pipedrive Inc.
No answers on this topic
Zoho
There is an endless supply of YouTube videos from Zoho and the many Zoho partners/consultants. Plus, Zoho has it's own library of training videos and webinars to learn from plus an entire community at the ready to answer any questions. While Zoho has been available for many years, there are constantly new training videos and webinars available for the novice and the experienced users.
Read full review
Implementation Rating
Gong.io
This is nothing something I'm able to answer
Read full review
Pipedrive Inc.
Experiment is the only way to start
Read full review
Zoho
When you switch CRMs, you can automatically assume everything isn’t going to match up correctly. We had used Salesforce for 10+ years and had a ton of data and customizations. It was not a clean transfer, but we were able to sort it all out. The only issue that really bothered me was Zoho support. Even simple questions couldn’t be answered over chat, and we would have some team members try for hours to find the right answer
Read full review
Alternatives Considered
Gong.io
I've used Chorus at a past company. It seems to do the transcriptions similarly accurately to Gong. Good enough call recording. The call feedback can be done too although maybe not as easily. I do not believe Chorus can create call playlists. I do feel there are a lot less analytics pieces to Chorus too. There are many feature addons in Gong to help sales motions.
Read full review
Pipedrive Inc.
I much prefer the interface of Pipedive when compared to Zoho. Much more user friendly and the team is always readily available when we need them. Pipedrive allowed for many custom integrations to be added, as Zoho was a tad more complicated to manipulate. We would not go back to Zoho in any case.
Read full review
Zoho
Free user access was one reason to use it more than any other software. Also, for a mid-size organization, the Salesforce cost was a little higher, and Pipedrive was almost similar to Zoho. As we were already using Zoho, we found no urgency to switch.
Read full review
Contract Terms and Pricing Model
Gong.io
I was not involved with the process
Read full review
Pipedrive Inc.
No answers on this topic
Zoho
I think Zoho CRM is priced at a reasonable amount. Simply put, you get what you pay for and Zoho does not disappoint. My organization is comfortable with what we pay and pleased with continually renewing the software. The billing frequency is just right. There are no complaints on our end
Read full review
Scalability
Gong.io
No answers on this topic
Pipedrive Inc.
No answers on this topic
Zoho
We're still in the early stages of scaling this across departments. We have high aspirations of doing this, but it takes time to migrate to the new system and to help people get acquainted of doing their work in a different way thru Zoho.
Read full review
Professional Services
Gong.io
I was not involved with the process
Read full review
Pipedrive Inc.
No answers on this topic
Zoho
In addition to being a user of Zoho CRM, we are a reseller as well. Often, at times our Partners request for on-boarding the platform configuration for them. During such requirements, we have utilized the Professional services team directly from the Zoho CRM team. Our partner feedback was quite positive, throughout.
Read full review
Return on Investment
Gong.io
  • saves a lot of time, mainly thanks to call summaries & next steps as well as workflows allowing to automate communication
  • I could say that generally speaking it does increase revenue because you can do more work in the same period of time > more leads, more opportunities, more sales
Read full review
Pipedrive Inc.
  • Great on setup which made our work easier and less technically equipped people can manage a lot of things(compared to SalesForce where you need to hire a developer to set it up)
  • We were able to integrate our calling system easily and get things going on the lead calling aspect.
  • Great multipipeline option where we were able to manage both organisations under one roof.
Read full review
Zoho
  • because we are new to the CRM world, we wanted a product that was reasonably priced, yet had the features we were looking for
  • we have found a much higher customer engagement rate and ROI
  • we used to "lose" customers in our makeshift process. Now, all customers are being attended to.
Read full review
ScreenShots

Gong Screenshots

Screenshot of Coach reps into sales superstars. Replicate what works by turning objective, data-based guidance into coachable moments for managers, peer-to-peer coaching, and self-driven improvements — without any drama.Screenshot of Find the truth in your pipeline. There are risks hiding in your pipeline, deals, and customer interactions. Get true visibility from contact to close so you can address them and call the right forecast every time.Screenshot of Bet big. And win. Gong’s early insights into what’s working — and what's not — gives your team the confidence to take big-bet initiatives to market successfully.

Pipedrive Screenshots

Screenshot of Screenshot of Screenshot of Screenshot of Screenshot of Screenshot of

Zoho CRM Screenshots

Screenshot of Deals - Cash in on all opportunities. Close more deals. Great sales management is all about prioritizing, tracking, and monitoring the deals in your pipeline. Zoho CRM gives you everything you need to manage deals across territories and sales structures.Screenshot of Activities - Keep track of all the tasks, meetings, calls, events, or activity records. Neatly organize the numerous records along with the activities associated to them such as follow-up, pre sales and post sales activities, phone conversations etc.