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Lead Forensics

Lead Forensics


What is Lead Forensics?

UK company Lead Forensics offers their eponymous platform for lead generation and web analytics.

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Recent Reviews

TrustRadius Insights

Lead Forensics is a valuable tool for tracking and capturing information about website visitors, allowing users to contact potential …
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Absolute Trash. Run.

1 out of 10
December 15, 2021
I couldn't use the product. They lied and oversold its capabilities, strung me along for two months and charged me, and then wouldn't show …
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What is Lead Forensics?

UK company Lead Forensics offers their eponymous platform for lead generation and web analytics.

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  • No setup fee
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  • Free/Freemium Version
  • Premium Consulting/Integration Services

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Product Demos

Lead Forensics - track your online marketing activity with this website lead generation tool


Lead Forensics - sales leads that can be validated early in the lead nurturing process


Improve online marketing activity with Lead Forensics


Lead Forensics - Instant ROI on your B2B online lead generation activity


The Benefits of Website Analytical Tools and Lead Forensics


Lead Forensics - understand how engaged your website visitors are with your brand

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Product Details

What is Lead Forensics?

Lead Forensics aims to turn anonymous B2B website visitors into high-quality, actionable opportunities for businesses.

With Lead Forensics, users can:

Identify website visitors in real-time
Used to convert previously anonymous web visitors into paying customers. Lead Forensics states that with their business database, every visitor that lands on a site is a potential lead, not just the 2% who fill out a form.

Transform lapsed customers into new business
Enables personalized win-back strategies by identifying lapsed customers browsing a website and triggering an automated marketing campaign or a sales call.

Drive incremental revenue from existing customers
Helps users to instantly start real-time conversations, impress existing customers with service, and identify opportunities to up-sell. Lead Forensics identifies when an existing customer is exploring a site and sends details of their on-site behavior in real-time.

Give your target accounts a VIP experience
Instant alerts inform when an existing pipeline opportunity is exploring a website. Lead Forensic's behavioral data enables the user to create personalized communications and conversations.

Lead Forensics Features

  • Supported: Identifies visitors
  • Supported: Locates decision-makers
  • Supported: Deep visitor insight
  • Supported: Unlimited users
  • Supported: Mobile app

Lead Forensics Screenshots

Screenshot of Lead Forensics provides detailed insight with regard to who is visiting your website, where they have come from, how your visits trend over time, what they have looked at on your site, as well as providing detailed firmographics about each and every business visitor identified - all in real-time. At a glance insight for marketers to understand website performance, weak spots, campaign effectiveness and market engagement.Screenshot of Get a detailed view of precisely which businesses are visiting your website in real-time. Categorize visitors according to their stage in your sales pipeline and create actions based upon each visitor profile to commence further engagement. Understand what each visit is interested in by reviewing the time they have spent on each page, and use this information to start valuable conversations. Lastly, review the contact information, and commence pro-active engagement to give each customer and prospect an exceptional first impression.Screenshot of Understand which of your marketing campaigns and tactics are driving high value opportunities to your website. Track changes over time to understand the success of specific campaigns and monitor the performance of social media, PPC, SEO and any other referring source, enabling you to optimize campaigns and invest marketing budget where you are driving maximum engagement and return.Screenshot of Detailed firmographics relating to each visiting business, enable you to qualify and score a visitor, according to their 'fit' for your business. Understand the size and scope of each visitor, identify where they are located and get their contact information. Leverage automated lead scoring against your specific criteria in order to focus on the highest priority opportunities, in order to acquire new business, expand existing customer revenues and deliver excellent levels of customer service.

Lead Forensics Videos

What is Lead Forensics?
Lead Forensics Explained
How Turning Point HR Solutions generated £1M in revenue with Lead Forensics
How Site-Seeker achieved their highest ever click-through rate with Lead Forensics
How Lead Forensics secured £1M worth of business for Oktra
Bay MarketForce - Case Study

Lead Forensics Competitors

Lead Forensics Technical Details

Deployment TypesSoftware as a Service (SaaS), Cloud, or Web-Based
Operating SystemsUnspecified
Mobile ApplicationApple iOS, Android

Frequently Asked Questions

UK company Lead Forensics offers their eponymous platform for lead generation and web analytics.

Leadfeeder, Albacross, and Demandbase One are common alternatives for Lead Forensics.

Reviewers rate Support Rating highest, with a score of 8.1.

The most common users of Lead Forensics are from Small Businesses (1-50 employees).
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Reviews and Ratings


Community Insights

TrustRadius Insights are summaries of user sentiment data from TrustRadius reviews and, when necessary, 3rd-party data sources. Have feedback on this content? Let us know!

Lead Forensics is a valuable tool for tracking and capturing information about website visitors, allowing users to contact potential clients and monitor their website traffic in real time. Users have found it especially helpful for high dollar, low volume sales, as it provides company-specific information about visitors rather than broad demographics. By using Lead Forensics, organizations across industries can identify companies visiting their websites, particularly after sending email or marketing material. Appointment setting agencies have also benefited from Lead Forensics, increasing their appointment rate compared to cold lists.

One of the standout features of Lead Forensics is its comprehensive database and data manager, which are imperative for success. This sets it apart from other tools on the market. However, some users have reported negative experiences with the software, particularly regarding cancellation and billing issues. Despite this, many users have found that Lead Forensics gives them an edge by allowing them to see what visitors are looking for on their websites and providing an advantage in starting conversations and offering assistance. Overall, the software is used to capture new leads, monitor website traffic, and improve profit margins and customer service. It helps organizations target the right customers and stay ahead of industry trends.

Detailed and Extensive Information: Many users have praised the product for providing detailed and extensive information, allowing them to gather valuable data. This feature has been appreciated by several reviewers as it helps them make informed decisions based on comprehensive insights.

Easy Tagging and Reporting: The tagging feature on the website has made it easy for users to search and report specific individuals. This functionality has enhanced the overall usability of the product, according to multiple customers. They find it convenient to tag and segment groups of visitors, enabling better organization and targeted communication.

Insightful Visitor Analytics: Users highly appreciate the ability to view the pages that visitors spent the most time on. Several reviewers have mentioned that this provides valuable insight into their interests and allows for effective follow-up. By understanding visitor behavior, users can tailor their approach and engage with potential leads more effectively.

Inaccurate Tracking: Some users have reported issues with the software's tracking capabilities, stating that it does not accurately track every visitor and that the visitor count sometimes does not match the actual numbers.

Lack of Real-time Notifications: Several users mentioned that they would like to see real-time notifications on the interface to know if visitors are currently on their site. This feature is currently missing from the software, which has left some users feeling uninformed about the activity happening on their website.

Doubts About Data Accuracy: There were concerns expressed by users regarding the accuracy of information provided by the software. Some reviewers suspect that the business information may not always be correct. However, customer support claims otherwise, creating a sense of doubt among users about the reliability of this data.

Users have provided several recommendations based on their experience with Lead Forensics. The most common recommendations are as follows:

  1. Use Lead Forensics in conjunction with other tools like Google Analytics to gain a more comprehensive understanding of website visitors and their behavior.

  2. Take advantage of the trial period offered by Lead Forensics to evaluate its suitability for specific business needs. Users also appreciate the excellent support provided by the company.

  3. Utilize Lead Forensics to identify website visitors and measure the impact of marketing efforts. This is especially valuable in the context of remote work becoming more common, as it helps generate leads and facilitate sales.

Overall, users emphasize that Lead Forensics is a valuable investment for generating leads, analyzing website traffic, and gaining insights into market dynamics. They advise having patience when using the tool as it takes time to track visitor data effectively. Some caution against additional costs and automatic renewal clauses in contracts, suggesting exploring alternatives if those factors are concerns. However, despite these considerations, the majority of users recommend utilizing Lead Forensics for its ability to provide qualified data and support business growth.

Attribute Ratings


(1-19 of 19)
Companies can't remove reviews or game the system. Here's why
Jeff Schommer | TrustRadius Reviewer
Score 10 out of 10
Vetted Review
We are an appointment setting agency, our typical client wants to be in front of c-suite and owners. At some point I could see us making the use of LF mandatory for our campaigns. We typically see an increase of rate of appointment by 2x-3x but have also seen an improvement in appointment rate to 5x that of a cold list. It makes sense, if someone is our looking and end up on your site (congratulations marketing), you need to know about it. We use Lead Forensics to do several things. We identify companies that come to the website that are not already being marketed to, if they profile like a great fit, we contact them within 48 hours. We monitor all of our marketing lists watching which companies are interacting with our website and notify our SDRs immediately. We also use it as a leading indicator of our paid ads.There are many different tools on the market and we've tried most of them. LF has the most comprehensive database and provides the greatest hit rate. The data manager is imperative to our success, most tools don't have that ability.
  • Company Identification at a higher rate than other tools we have tried
  • Data Manager to allow you to monitor specific lists of companies
  • Daily summary reports to Sales and Immediate notification to SDRs
  • Would love more granularity in the industry classifications
  • Adding some level of Intent data to identify companies that are searching but not finding your site
If you sell into larger organizations ($25M and larger) or into the public sector, LF provides a high level of hit results. If your key audience is small business, this tool may not be a good fit. Many small companies don't pay for static IP addresses and their company information is typically harder to find in any data tool.
Hassan Khalid | TrustRadius Reviewer
Score 1 out of 10
Vetted Review
Verified User
This is a useless GIMMICK! <br><br>It was supposed to help with lead generated by IP reverse lookup.
  • Wastes a lot of time
  • Shows unnecessary information
  • It needs to be deleted from the internet & world of business
  • If they give dashboard access for 1-hour to prospects, no one will buy
Score 1 out of 10
Vetted Review
Verified User
lead forensics is a great tool. the information is accurate and certainly beneficial, however...... with the advent of covid and the massive negative effect it had on the tradeshow industry we contacted them to cancel our subscription. in August last year as it was money just going out of the door. They were completely unhelpful. their point was that we were contracted until January this year. At that point I told them ok I would wait until January. I canceled our subscription in January and they confirmed that it was indeed canceled yet they STILL continue to charge our company credit card for the full amount. based on their point of view when we tried to cancel the last august, I would never use them again. Based on them still charging us for services that we no longer use and their failure to act correctly I felt I had to leave them a review. our account manager is terrible and I needed to warn others of the pitfalls of dealing with such an unprofessional group of people
  • Nothing
  • Nothing
  • Nothing
  • Nothing
  • Customer service does not exist
  • They need to be more understanding in difficult situations
  • Stop being ignorant to wards your customers
They are a terrible company and NO ONE should purchase from them. There are a lot less expensive options out there where they have polite and civil salespeople. They do not listen to their customers and they certainly don't care. It is their way or the highway and that is it. we had a five-year relationship with them but when it came right down to it counted for nothing
December 15, 2021

Absolute Trash. Run.

Score 1 out of 10
Vetted Review
Verified User
I couldn't use the product. They lied and oversold its capabilities, strung me along for two months and charged me, and then wouldn't show up to discuss the issues. They escalated the issue to some manager who no-showed for a meeting and then accused me of doing so. Trash outfit.
  • Nothing
  • Lies
  • No showing to meetings
  • Be professional
They are not equipped to serve customers. They do not show up to meetings. They do not provide service. I cannot discuss the product because they can't even service their accounts enough to be able to get a grasp. This product is not good. Their sales team lies. Their service team doesn't exist.
Kevin McLauchlin | TrustRadius Reviewer
Score 1 out of 10
Vetted Review
Verified User
I purchased Lead Forensics in late 2020, which was a very high-pressure sales environment (End of Month need to make a deal) type approach but I fell for it. I was told that I would be able to see who was on my website source the contacts and reach out to get them on the phone. All good but when I went to get the contacts that gave me 2 and then said I had to pay more for more contacts (never explained in the sales process). Then my credit card flagged their charge as spam 2 months in a row, which I addressed the first month and made the payment. Rather than a letter saying "hey your card was declined", I got a final demand letter stating that legal action would be taken if I don't pay. I let them know of my displeasure with that and asked that I just be let out of my contract as I don't want to work with a company like that. They have declined that. Please don't work with these people.
  • Nothing
  • Nothing
  • Nothing
  • Customer service is horrible
  • overseas collections are rude
  • lies in the sales process [in my experience]
  • high pressure sales
0 isn't an option
Paul Zimmerman 🎧 | TrustRadius Reviewer
Score 10 out of 10
Vetted Review
Verified User
We use Lead Forensics to notify us of website traffic so we can follow up with that company. I have successfully started new business due to Lead Forensics' notifications--great tool to make money! This tool allows you to get a jump on your prospects, since you can see what they are looking for before reaching out to them. This gives you a great advantage when starting the conversation and allows you to offer your assistance in finding the best product for the customers' needs. I use Lead Forensics daily to improve my profit margins and to offer excellent customer service to my current customers as well. I recommend using Lead Forensic at your business to give you the advantage above your competition! Five stars!
  • It gives you valid leads that have been on your website looking for your products
  • The information is always accurate and detailed about their visit
  • It notifies you when the customer is looking for help or products, so you know when to reach out to them
  • I would like possibly more detail on who was on our website exactly
  • I would like a department listed
I have used Lead Forensics for over three years now; it helps me to reach my weekly sales goals. I like that I can get detailed information on the company that visited our site and what they looked at. It gives me the advantage when I know a customer is shopping. I can reach out to make a sale. In sales, timing is everything. Lead Forensics is a great tool to increase profit for your company!
Jarrod Mollison | TrustRadius Reviewer
Score 9 out of 10
Vetted Review
Verified User
We use it to see who has been on our website, where they go, [and] how long they stay there for. We also try and find out who has been on the site so that we can contact them about our services. It is very easy to see who has been on the site and where they have been.
  • Simple and easy reporting
  • Correct companies identified
  • Suggested contacts within companies
  • Nice dashboard
  • It would be good to know exactly who has visited.
  • Referral search engines [are] not always identified.
  • Search strings that brought them to the website [are] not always visible.
Really good for quick, easy website tracking.

Also good for companies who have clients in small companies who the contacts will be easy to identify.

Not so great for large organisations who have multiple decision makers or buyers.

I have not yet found the person who visited our site unless I sent them an email first.
Max Safier | TrustRadius Reviewer
Score 10 out of 10
Vetted Review
Verified User
We use Lead Forensics across our organization and it helps solve what companies are visiting our website. That way, if we are targeting a certain company after sending them an email or marketing material, they click on any of our links in our signature we would know they looked at our website
  • Lets you know [who] looked at your site.
  • Gives you contacts for that company right through [their] tool.
  • Also know analytics about the person looking at your site.
  • Have to pay for additional credits to get contact info.
  • Doesn’t give you personal site lookups.
  • You don’t know who at the company visited your site.
Lead Forensics would be suited for any sales organizations that want[s] to know what companies are looking at their site, [and] what pages they are hitting. And if you are driving traffic to companies, you will know they are getting it, because you will see that they came to your website. Helps you reach back out to those companies because the marketing materials are working.
Austin Grammon | TrustRadius Reviewer
Score 1 out of 10
Vetted Review
Verified User
We signed up with Lead Forensics with the promise of identifying leads from visitors on our website. While this is true, it's a fraction of our visitors for one thing, and the information they supply is no better than a simple Google search. Not to mention since there is zero personal detail about who visited the site, if it's any degree of sizable organization it's entirely useless since you have to go through the entire cold process anyway.
  • Selling you the tool
  • Over-promising and under-delivering
  • High pressure sales tactics
  • Locked-in contracts at an extremely high price for the "value"
  • Horrible customer service
I don't believe most people will get value out of the product. Even with a massive team and budget the data that you get from Lead Forensics is sub-par at best and provides nothing actionable.
Score 9 out of 10
Vetted Review
Verified User
We are using Lead Forensics for sales and marketing insights into website visits.
  • Enabling notifications and trigger reports
  • Enabling list uploads by account owner/user
  • Seems to have a robust data set for matching visitors
  • Definitely, editing account ownership could be easier. Right now I have to re-upload all new lists.
  • Salesforce integration is good, could there be an improvement?
B2C environments may not recognize value in the company name reports, but they could see value in the page visits - also available in Google Analytics.
Travis Brown | TrustRadius Reviewer
Score 5 out of 10
Vetted Review
Verified User
We utilize Lead Forensics as a tool to capture new leads through our website. We have the ability to see who is coming to the site and reach out to them if we believe they may be a viable client. We could probably utilize more of the tools, but do take advantage of the daily reporting. We predominantly use it through our sales department, though it has only been partially adopted with moderate success.
  • Identify leads coming to the website.
  • Ability to see staff within the company.
  • Daily reporting.
  • It can only give you company, not the individual who came to your site.
  • It can require additional funds to get company information.
  • Hasn't generated the type of results we were hoping for.
If you have a large sales team who is always looking for any lead possible, Lead Forensics may be for you. If you have a moderate to small size business that isn't interested in cold calling every visitor and you don't get a lot of traffic to your site, this may not be the ideal solution for you. Additionally, as GDPR migrates to the United States, the amount of data available will be less and less.
Score 7 out of 10
Vetted Review
Verified User
We use Lead Forensics to track visitors on our website. It captures information of visitors if available and we can contact them by finding them in our database. We also can see when clients are on the site, and I get a report as they are on it in real time so my sales team can reach out to them and see what they need.
  • The information is detailed & you get a lot of it
  • Tagging of people on the site, makes it easy to search and report
  • Pages viewed- this helps you see where they spend the most time and gives you a reason to follow up
  • Tracking, it doesn't track every visitor and sometimes our numbers don't match our visitor count
  • The real time notifications, I wish on the interface you can see if they are currently on the site in live time
  • Accuracy, sometimes I think the business may be different then what it says. You can let them know but the time I did they said it was right
It is a costly solution but well worth the money because of the details and information. We used others in the past but switched because it links with WIX. Sometimes I feel as if it is not capturing all our web traffic simply because it doesn't even track when our business is using it. It is good for some leads but I think there can be more it is missing.
Scot Armstrong | TrustRadius Reviewer
Score 7 out of 10
Vetted Review
Verified User
We use Lead Forensics for our entire organization. Lead Forensics allows us to see which companies are demonstrating an interest in our website. This is particularly helpful because website traffic contains a mix of visitors. The volume of visitors can be misleading because the mix may not be primarily customers. We have found we get a lot of traffic from vendors.
  • Identifies which companies visit your website.
  • Allows you to rate companies who visit.
  • Provide insights on companies who visit.
  • The contact information for companies who visit must be purchased separately.
  • This tool catches, therefore if you do not have significant web traffic, it will not be very useful.
Well suited for heavy web traffic seeking your content. Not suited as well for companies who do not have significant web traffic. The tool is very well positioned by its sales team and very well supported by the support team. We love the tool and would recommend to the right users.
Devin Ellis | TrustRadius Reviewer
Score 7 out of 10
Vetted Review
Verified User
We are using it in marketing to discover and deanonymize engaged accounts on our website so we can take appropriate action afterward. [We are] Segmenting them based on pages viewed and putting them into a marketing initiative after we get general contact information for job titles we normally work with at these companies.
  • They do a good job of the actual deanonymization of the accounts and putting it into an easy to filter view
  • It is nice to be able to see the pages visited by the particular companies and how much time the were on each page.
  • They make it fairly easy to tag/segment groups that are visiting the website.
  • I wish the process could be a little more automated somehow. Right now it is more manual, at least in our process, to aggregate the accounts and segment accordingly.
  • It seems more geared towards sales, rather than marketing. We are struggling a little to use this at scale, but it could be where we are in maturity of using the product.
I think Lead Forensics works a little better as a sales enablement tool, rather than a marketing lead generation tool. There is good data a particular salesperson/BDR could pull that might be helpful, or at least pursue companies that are engaged.

I would recommend having a display ad vendor in place, or have social ads ready, that could help target the companies that are de-anonymized to help determine the buying committee and gain opt-ins to target with emails.

I would also recommend making sure you have the people/processes in place to manage this, as I previously mentioned, the process seems more manual, at least at the level of our contract.
Doug Mancosky | TrustRadius Reviewer
Score 8 out of 10
Vetted Review
Verified User
We used Lead Forensics to augment Google Analytics. We're a high dollar low volume seller and broad demographics aren't as important as the company-specific information. Lead Forensics let us know what companies were considering our technology perhaps even before they reached out and contacted us. Customers typically research longer and contact later in the selling process than years before so this type of information is valuable to us.
  • Good website
  • Great e-mail alerts so you don't always have to remember to log in to the website
  • Good customer service
  • The educational webinars could be more than "used car" sales techniques
  • A bit pricey with some cheaper alternative out there now
  • If you have multiple domains you'll pay a lot
Much of the information duplicates stuff you can get for free from Google. The real magic here is getting the company names. Now it's not going to give you a specific person or a specific department, it's still up to you to do some old-fashioned sales through LinkedIn and the such to make a connection.
Annie Koelker | TrustRadius Reviewer
Score 10 out of 10
Vetted Review
Verified User
Lead Forensics was used primarily by a smaller group that was responsible for generating leads in our organization. We were able to generate really solid leads, along with their contact information. After an email marketing campaign, it was great to see who clicked through the campaign and what specifically they were looking at.
  • It was incredible to see who is visiting your website and what they're looking at!
  • Lead Forensics did a great job almost "training" us on the best way to use the information and how to be tactful when reaching out to leads.
  • The interface was very user-friendly and provided an easy way to take the leads and delegate them to the sales team.
  • The product was a little bit pricey.
  • Some of the leads still required some legwork to get contact information on your leads.
  • At times, the sales staff seemed very pushy. Used-car-salesman-like.
Lead Forensics is great if you've got a robust website that is highly integrated into the rest of your marketing. It was helpful for our company, and I can see a use for our clients. However, a larger budget is critical, because I think it would best work in combination with other marketing efforts.
Jim Hohl | TrustRadius Reviewer
Score 2 out of 10
Vetted Review
We intended to use it to identify leads to our site from larger organizations who don't contact us. It is only used by the sales team. It addresses the problem of leads not self-identifying.
  • Providing name and info on large companies who visit our site
  • Goal based tagging for site visitors
  • User-customized filtering for leads
  • They charge for looking up specific people at companies
  • Companies in coworking spaces are essentially anonymous
  • Really only useful if you are targeting larger businesses
  • Not a great integration with Infusionsoft
I would recommend it to companies targeting larger businesses. If your ideal client is solopreneurs, start-ups in coworking spaces, or anyone else who would not have their own IP block, this is not useful. However even for larger businesses, unless you know exactly who inside the company is visiting, it's not super helpful.
Score 7 out of 10
Vetted Review
Verified User
We are using Lead Forensics in our marketing, sales, and demand generation team for the purpose of lead generation, ABM insights, and website optimization. By gathering account visit insights we can better measure website activity at an account level, helping us to narrow our prospecting focus.
  • Accurate account level detail and information provided
  • Real-time insights so we can make decisions quickly
  • Easy to use interface for faster adoption
  • Collect more account information like revenue and SIC code for targeting purposes
  • Integration with Eloqua
  • More advanced reporting on Web analytics
For ABM strategies and web optimization measurement, it could be useful because of the account based insights it provides. It is not that useful if you don't have a lot of web traffic and need to know exactly who the people are that are visiting.
Ginger Davis | TrustRadius Reviewer
Score 1 out of 10
Vetted Review
Verified User
Lead Forensics helps us see who is looking at our website. This is useful so we can target those companies but also so that we can stay ahead of the trends in the industry and target similar business when we notice a pattern.
  • Capturing visitor data (pages, length of time spent, etc)
  • Sell their product
  • Must pay additional for actual contact information
  • Unethical billing practices
  • Lots of wasted time training on the same things over and over which aren't of actual use
I wouldn't recommend them despite believing that they have a good product. Unethical business practices overshadow their product.

Although they provide a pretty neat service, the company is pretty unethical. Last fall, they convinced me to sign a contract with them for my small business after lots of negotiation. When they sent over the paperwork for me to sign regarding the bank draft, I noticed it had an amount different than what we had agreed upon, so I didn't sign and contacted my salesman; he said if I didn't want to sign it first and let them correct it later, he would send another. The second one was completely blank and they wanted me to sign my authorization and they'd fill in amounts after I signed and returned to them; I of course refused because blank is even worse than an incorrect yet known amount and they acted like I was crazy for doing so. Eventually they sent the correct amount and I signed.

Fast forward about three months. I'm in the process of changing banks. I contacted them to let them know that the account they would draft from monthly was changing and provided the new routing and account number. When I noticed a draft from my "old" account a couple of days later, I chalked it up to them not having enough time to make the change and assumed it would be switched before the next draft; however, when I reconciled, I realized that they were able to get that new account info into play nearly immediately and drafted BOTH the new and old accounts. I reported this and even though it only takes about 24 hours to CHARGE you, it's been a week and counting and CREDITING for their "mistake" is taking far longer. It's resulted in three overdrafts which they take no responsibility for other than to say they're sorry.

My advice is to find another company that offers this service and do business with someone reputable. I hate that I'm under contract with these crooks.
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